Express paths and routes

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metrolord
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Express paths and routes

Post by metrolord » 16 Nov 2019, 17:36

Hello everyone.
Since Rijndam has alot of lines (and probably some of them are very full, like M2 for example), it will take alot of time to ride through all minor stations, where almost noone exits. So express routes will reduce the ridership and will make stations less full. An express route stops at major stations where most of people exits, or popular, mostly full stations. New York's subway system uses the same method, but there are special paths for expresses, that are not passing the platform. They are going in the center of station (platforms are in left and right side). Like on this photo:
500px-MTA_NYC_Subway_F-express_train_at_Fourth_Ave.jpg
500px-MTA_NYC_Subway_F-express_train_at_Fourth_Ave.jpg (50.96 KiB) Viewed 635 times
This metod will keep expresses always going fast and not slowing down and stopping only on their stations, plus it will be more safer.

Do you agree with this metod?
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Sjoerd
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by Sjoerd » 16 Nov 2019, 18:32

I am personally not a fan of express services on a metro line.
If they share tracks, that reduces the overal capacity of the line, as making timetbales involving different average train speeds will mean lower achievable train frequencies (can't send an all-stop metro every 3-4 minutes if you have to make room for express services too). And an express train that is behind a delayed normal train.... Loses the whole reason it exists (its not fast anymore).
And a metro is in itself already an express service, if you compare it to the road-level public transport (trams and busses).

Ofcourse, if the express service has its own tracks all the way.... Then it becomes in effect a separate line with all trains on those tracks again with the same average service speed. And then, it doesn't realy matter if they pass a local station on separate tracks in the middle, or bypasses that station altogether through a separate route.

Before introducing express services in a metro network, ask these questions:
  • How many passengers will benefit from this?
  • How much time will they safe (and is that worth setting up the service)?
  • Will there be any negative effects on existing services, and if yes, for how many passengers?
  • Is it possible to introduce the service reliably (with minimal risk of service delays to itself or to other trains)?
  • Will the service attract more passengers? After all; the extra income will be needed to offset the costs of setting it up.
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metrolord
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by metrolord » 16 Nov 2019, 19:07

First question. So, i'm not saying about all the passengers. Passengers from suburbs are more needed in that service (you want to go to museum quickly but it will take alot of time passing minor stations) going to city and less needed in that service, going to home, back to village or small city.
Second question. Simple way to make it more safer - remove some trains from the line and send them to the depot for stock, or to another line where they are not enough. That will reduce a stopped-on-a-station crashes, when train 1 is going to the station, and train 2 is stopped on the station.
Third question. Probably, more delays (sometimes) and longer waiting time.
Fourth question. As mentioned in second answer, some trains can be removed from line to the depot stock or to another line.
Fifth question. Rijndam Electric Transport operates so much services. I think income from all services will be enough to serve express services.
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perfecttrains1000
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by perfecttrains1000 » 16 Nov 2019, 19:32

The third question, i think sjoerd was trying to ask if it saves time not making it safer.
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Sjoerd
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by Sjoerd » 16 Nov 2019, 20:07

perfecttrains1000 wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 19:32
The third question, i think sjoerd was trying to ask if it saves time not making it safer.
Indeed. Safety is already handled by the train protection systems. The questions I posted all have to do with doing a costs and benefits analyses.

In the end, I would prefer higher frequencies, while stoping at all stations, above express services; All passengers (to all destinations) can take all trains, and the reduced waiting time at the platform (the next train arrives sooner with high frequencies) will compensate for the time you lose as the train stops at stations along the way (that are not your personal destination).

To give an example; I travel almost daily with an intercity service that runs 2x/hour, and skips 3 stations (and stopping at another 4) between where I get on and where I go to. I would have no problem accepting 3 extra stops, if the frequency of the service goes up too; As I then have less waiting time before departure, that would compensate for the extra time between departure and arrival at my destination. While at the same time, also benefitting a lot more travelers to and from those 3 extra stations.
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Michiel
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by Michiel » 16 Nov 2019, 21:23

Non-stop trains can increase the capacity of a line though. The biggest bottleneck for how many trains an hour you can run are the stations. Even with automatic trains you won't get much more then one train every 100 seconds or 36 trains per hour. This is mostly due to the time the train stands still at the platform though, on the tracks between stations trains can run closer together, especially with moving block technology. So if you would let every stopping train be follower by a non-stopping one, that could increase the total capacity of the line. Let's say a non-stopping train can pass through 50 seconds after a stopping one. Then instead of having 1 train per 100 seconds you have 2 trains per 150 seconds or 48 trains per hour.

Of course the non-stopping trains will have to drive slower as they cannot overtake the stopping trains, so this won't improve travel times. Unless you apply the skip-stop principle, where the first train would stop at stations 1, 3, 5 and 7, and the second train at stations 2, 4, 6 and 8. In this method, which I think is used on some lines in New York, travel times do improve while increasing capacity at the same time. But at the cost that there is no direct connection between the even and odd stations possible. And in both cases, stations where all trains should call (the stations where you can change to other lines for example) will need to have extra tracks.

HexxOP
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by HexxOP » 16 Nov 2019, 23:00

Really good subject, and actually very linked to history of systems and characteristics of cities.
Just to give an idea, in Paris (105,40 km2), trains stop at every station and between-stations are usually from 400 to 600 meters.
In New-York (785 km2), services are changing along the day (and the night), with express, local, skip-stop services, most rush-hour services are polarized (express on the rush direction and stopping on the other), and between-stations goes from 400 meters to more than 5.5 kilometers.

So it's more the reason and passengers uses of a system that makes an express service logical and useful or not.
Typically, in NYC, a great part of the system plays the role of what would be suburb trains or RER in Paris (which often contain rush-hour services, express or skip-stop patterns, and their infrastructure is adapted in consequence).

It's more what definition you give to your "subway system" that gives those type of exploitation a use or not.

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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by SFMUNI » 17 Nov 2019, 23:16

A way the system where I work uses express trains is kinda different than all the ways here. We have them run in service in the downtown direction, and then non stop in the non-peak direction. As somebody who has driven those, most of the delays are actually encountered during the time when I'm in service, or due to mechanical issues. Rarely is it because of a train doing its cycle at the station, and causing me to wait behind it not in service. Express service is often best when it has a dedicated track for itself, or more than one platform. The other big electric rail transport agency in the Bay Area, BART does do in service express runs. Those trains also are express in the non-peak direction, but only on the segment where the line their running, is by itself and has 15 min headways. So an express won't catch up to its leader and cause issues.
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Sgt_DeBones
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by Sgt_DeBones » 17 Nov 2019, 23:25

SFMUNI wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 23:16
. The other big electric rail transport agency in the Bay Area, BART does do in service express runs. Those trains also are express in the non-peak direction, but only on the segment where the line their running, is by itself and has 15 min headways. So an express won't catch up to its leader and cause issues.
I would have used CalTrain as a perfect example tbh.

VTA once had an express service on the Alum Rock - Santa Teresa (Blue) Line along SR-87 for years until recently.
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DT3-LZB
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Re: Express paths and routes

Post by DT3-LZB » 19 Nov 2019, 21:49

which I think is used on some lines in New York
Only on the J/Z during rush hours if I remember correctly. The 1 used to have it until 2005 when the 9 service was discontinued. (Maybe some more lines had that but if so, they were all converted to regular local/express service) Transferring between the two lines is possible at about every fifth station (and any station in Lower Manhattan).

However that requires good signage and passenger informations - stuff the New York subway doesn't have. While it's quite obvious that the Z is a rush hour only service there's no way of finding out where which train stops besides trying to figure out the overloaded and confusingly designed subway map. Dynamic LED line diagrams on the platform - something that all subway cars built after 2006 already have - would be a good thing in that case. Also I found it quite funny that there are signs on the platform roof that say "J", "Z" or "J/Z" so that the operator knows where to stop - and still frequently they stop at wrong stations. At least when I'm using them - well, okay, that only happens like every two/three years.

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