Rijndam

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MattH
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Re: Rijndam

Post by MattH »

Sjoerd wrote:Yes. But the museumline is not in there yet.... I will add it. :)
So, is that for the airport shuttle? Just saying, because I think the shuttle a 'turn-up-and-go' frequency, or at the very least, a countdown timer (like the carpark bus at the airport of the city where I live). Printing timetables for the public would be a general waste of money IMHO, as one would only use it once or twice.
I just thought it was the Museum line 'cause it more sense! (the brochure would include the timetable and some history about the Rijndam Metronetwork :D )
In 1985 there are two timetable views; one for the metro (due to it's common Westpoort - Station Westplein section), and one for the trainservice (Rijndam Noorderpoort - Airport/Panbos).
So there's trains dummied out using a comment code? :lol:

I don't think I've ever seen a dwarf signal at the end of a station platform like that, unless all of the tracks past the signal were storage tracks, or could show a 'clear' aspect (like typical Dutch signals). Because this signal could only display 'stop' or 'drive on sight', an unfitted or ZUB only train can only go 20km/h at maximum, when in fact it could of gone 35 or 50km/h. Tl;dr i've never seen them on somewhat fast revenue passenger tracks with only 2 aspects before

Also, what's the code for going to the small stub track behind Molenwijk?
MetroSimGermany wrote:stuff about LZB and dwarf signals staying red
The section to Denia uses ZUB, so that's why there are signals; and drivers do not like passing red signals. (I think read somewhere that in LZB territories signals have a 'turned off' light or something...)
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Sjoerd
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Sjoerd »

Those timetables haven't been made for public printing. They are ment for the drivers, as a referencepoint.

Whatever the public transport company tells you, there is always a timetable, even if trains/busses are so frequent you don't need to look it up. It is always there. Without making a timetable, the company has no way to determine how many vehicles it needs, when to start from the depots, how many drivers and their shifts, and so on. Even with a bus every 2-3 minutes, there is still a timetable, and you can usually look it up online.

You are right; making printed versions are not usefull anymore. Even the Dutch railways (NS - Nederlandse Spoorwegen) stopped doing that een number of years ago. I used to buy the new "Spoorboekje" (railway book) each year, and nearly memorized it each time :D After they stopped making it, a travelers association called "Rover" decided to make one, but it just wasn't the same. :lol:
And why even bother with it? Everyone now has a telephone with internet connection, and there are hundreds of applications with multi-modal realtime travel information. Some even tell you the type and length of the train you will be travelling on. :D
And another reason not to look it up on paper anymore; the Dutch railways keep making small changes to the timetable every two months, so you could end up selecting your travel plans, and then miss your train as the departure time has moved 2 minutes since the book was printed. :lol:



About that dwarf signal which used to be at the end of the Transferium Rijndijk tracks; They where placed there when Transferium Rijndijk was the end, and I had not build the Denia line yet. At that moment, there where only 4 stabling tracks behind the station.
When I build the Denia line (M5), I converted the outer two stabling tracks into the start of the new (ZUB controlled) line. The dwarf signals stayed, as they where still in the ATB area, and primary for the entrace to the stabling tracks. When a path was made to the new line instead of to the stabling tracks, the SG3 trains get a clear code from the ATB, and switch to ZUB after departure. The dwarf signal then also displays the 'continue' signal, as I wouldn't want you to pass it when it still shows red.
But now there are ZUB signals there, so the situation is reversed; now the signal is primary for departing to Denia, and I had to change the settings to get appropriate signal aspects for when a path to the stabling tracks is made.

The code for the reversing track behind Molenwijk in Rijndam 1985? There isn't one. You can still set a path manually, or make a code for it yourself when you make your own activity and ctd. Personally, I never use that track, unless I want to park a metro out of the way. ;)
MattH wrote: (I think read somewhere that in LZB territories signals have a 'turned off' light or something...)
I think I have seen that once in Germany (on a local track), when I managed to get a cabride from a ICE3 driver on the Amsterdam-Frankfurt route about 7-8 years ago.
In the Netherlands I do not think they would use that; here, a signal that seems to be "off" must be treated as a red signal: after all, it may be red, with a defective (burned out for example) red light.
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Michiel
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Michiel »

Sjoerd wrote:In the Netherlands I do not think they would use that; here, a signal that seems to be "off" must be treated as a red signal: after all, it may be red, with a defective (burned out for example) red light.
Actually they thought of that too, on tracks with dual signalling they added a strip of white vertical lights in each signal that when turned on means the signal can be ignored (unless ETCS says you need to stop of course).
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Sjoerd
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Sjoerd »

I have read about that, but I have never seen it in reality.
But then; that would be a visible signal aspect which means that the signal does not appear to be 'off'. ;)
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MattH
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Re: Rijndam

Post by MattH »

Sjoerd wrote:Those timetables haven't been made for public printing. They are meant for the drivers, as a referencepoint.
So they're working timetables? If that's the case, are there stuff that the public does not really need to know about, like departure times of depots and sidings?
Without timetables, several busses would come within 5 minutes, and then you'll have to wait like an hour :lol:

In the '80s there would of still been physical timetable booklets; even in the 00s you could SMS the station name and get time for the next hour or so...

An app that shows you the length and type of train? The length is always handy, but the type? Unless you're a trainspotter, I don't think you really need to know in advance :lol:
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Michiel
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Michiel »

MattH wrote:Without timetables, several busses would come within 5 minutes, and then you'll have to wait like an hour :lol:
You just described any failed transport tycoon clone from the last 20 years :evil:
MattH wrote:An app that shows you the length and type of train? The length is always handy, but the type? Unless you're a trainspotter, I don't think you really need to know in advance :lol:
It might be interesting to know where the wheelchair access is, where the bicycle rack is and where the first class is located. Unfortunately that part is usually absent in the apps, as while they do contain type and length, they do not include whether the train is in reverse or not, and not all trains are symmetrical.
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MetroSimGermany
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Re: Rijndam

Post by MetroSimGermany »

MattH wrote:
MetroSimGermany wrote:stuff about LZB and dwarf signals staying red

The section to Denia uses ZUB, so that's why there are signals; and drivers do not like passing red signals. (I think read somewhere that in LZB territories signals have a 'turned off' light or something...)
Indeed, German metro systems fitted with LZB (Nuremberg and Munich) usually have the signals off when the whole line is under LZB control. On main rail lines here, we usually still have normal (and active) signals on the LZB fitted tracks, as there are often still a few trains passing that line that do not support LZB. As far as I'm aware you are allowed to pass red signals if you have green light from the LZB, but I might be wrong.

What I meant is a situation like this; the red signals are for the ATS secured section that just leads to the storage tracks. To continue to the main line, trains switch to ATC, which like the ATB doesnt have any signals, but cab indicators. As I have a green light for the ATC to proceed with 25 km/h onto the main line, I can/have to ignore that the dwarf signal for the ATS sidings is showing me red. More importantly, as security systems are manually switched on these type of trains, it won't even let me pass onto the main line if I'm still on ATS protection.


Greets, Mika
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Michiel
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Michiel »

In a few months we know how the RET will solve this in Rotterdam, as the new extension will feature mixed traffic of metro's using LZB and freight trains using ATB Vv and light signals.
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Sjoerd
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Sjoerd »

I read somewhere that the freighttrains will run the entire distance at no more then 40 km/h, which means they won't recieve an active ATB signal from the tracks. And while they are on the line, the metro's will run in both directions on the other track.
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Michiel
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Re: Rijndam

Post by Michiel »

They indeed will be limited to 40km/u, but from what I understood they do use ATB Vv to prevent them from running a red light. But what I really meant was whether they will turn off the signals when a metro is approaching, or let the metro run the red light, or just make the signal show a green light to avoid passengers from panicking. In theory they can do whatever since these signals have no meaning for metro drivers, but I imagine they want to avoid confusion.
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